MarcCulver : 0:00

Welcome to the Public Works Nerds Podcast. Hey, welcome to the Public Works Nerds Podcast, a Public Works Podcast of the Nerds, for the nerds, and by the nerds. I'm your host, Marc Culver. It's been a while. We haven't dropped an episode here for a few months now, but it's been a little crazy. It's been a little busy. And we'll get into some of that craziness and busyness here in just a little bit. But uh for this oddball episode, this episode that's going to kick me back into the routine of re-record of recording episodes and dropping episodes again, uh, I'm welcoming back a good friend of the podcast, Mark Ray, public works director for the city of Burnsville, Minnesota, uh, to talk about professional societies uh and also just a little public works director catch up and some roundtable conversations on on some general topics between Mark and I. Uh, but the idea that kicked us off, and this is actually Mark's ID. I got to give him credit where credit is due, or maybe.

MarkRay: 1:05

Yeah, it's Marc with a C, not Mark with a K, just so there's no confusion.

MarcCulver : 1:09

Yeah, I am Mark with the C. And Mark with the I am Mark with a K. Um like I was just saying, uh I'll give him credit, I'll give him blame for this idea of us campaigning for each other. As we uh are both candidates for the Minnesota chapter of the American Public Works Association Board of Directors, uh, one of the director positions on that board. Uh, we are running uh elections are gonna open up here. Voting is gonna open up here in a couple of weeks. Uh, by the time this drops, it might be a matter of days. Um and uh we've been a little busy on LinkedIn campaigning for each other. So Mark with a C is campaigning for Mark with a K, and Mark with a K is campaigning for Mark with a C. And we've had a little fun with it. We've probably annoyed some people on uh LinkedIn with some of our posts. Um, but it's been fun. And and I think it's you know partly that recognition of hey, we're uh Mark is Mark's actually a much better candidate than than I mark for this position. Mark with a K, Mr. Ray. Mark with a K, Mr. Ray, see, huh?

MarkRay: 2:22

Um is well obviously as Mark with the C's campaign manager, I would have to disagree with you. Uh I think Mark Culver is a very strong candidate, has a really long track record of advocating for public works and really supporting the profession. And this podcast is really the testament to that. So look forward to the debate. I look forward to winning the debate because Mark Culver is definitely the solid candidate in this room.

MarcCulver : 2:43

With you know, if we had done this episode right, we would have had a moderator come on here and moderate a debate. But uh uh well, I'll just shoot right back at you and say that uh uh as the campaign manager for Mark Ray, um, you know, Mark, Mr. Ray is the one who coined the phrase uh we make normal happen when we talk about it.

MarkRay: 3:06

Well, it's actually public works makes normal happen. So clearly it's not as memorable as we're hoping for.

MarcCulver : 3:13

Well, we we make normal happen. Public works makes normal happen. Um but uh and and also you Mark Mark Ray has been uh heavily involved in emergency management uh nationwide, uh working with um other members of APWA and also working with uh uh people in uh other countries, I believe. On that, you've been to Australia to to talk about asset management uh with some people over there. And um, you're much more international and and renowned. You're award-winning. Mark Ray is award-winning. Um Mr.

MarkRay: 3:49

B's president of City Engineers.

MarcCulver : 3:52

Yeah, he you're published. Um what else can we say? You've been uh you you may have been a public if we add up all the years, you may have been a public works director longer than me. Ten years. Yeah, so I'm uh I was nine when I left Roseville, and now I'm two months into this gig. So yeah, let's let's dig into that a little bit.

MarkRay: 4:15

So transition for you. Congratulations, public works director, city of Brooklyn Park.

MarcCulver : 4:21

Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.

MarkRay: 4:22

Reasonably reasoned into it. How's it going?

MarcCulver : 4:25

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, the last you last uh if you're a regular listener to this podcast, the last you heard of that is uh I was uh appointed the city engineer for the city of Brooklyn Park back in July of 2024. It is now September of 2025. And um, you know, un unexpectedly, uh the the previous director for this uh department uh left the city of Brooklyn Park and position open up, wasn't expecting it. Um certainly wasn't like looking for looking for that. Um, but it opened up and and we did have an open uh recruitment process for that and interviewed several candidates. And I'm proud to say that that they uh selected me in the end, and and as of August 12th, I think officially of 2025, um I was appointed uh the director. Now, the department is actually here at uh um Brooklyn Park is operations and maintenance. And I don't know why this department is called operations and maintenance. And we are we are slowly working. When I accept this position, I I asked the city manager if I could uh use the working title of public works director um for this title. And as I get more comfortable in this role and as some time passes, I am going to make the effort of changing this department officially to public works. So I'm already starting to work that into the vocabulary uh with my staff, with my uh other directors and colleagues in that, um, and even the council, um referring to public works instead of operations and maintenance. So it'll take a bit of a little bit of time. But um my one of my council members, I was uh we were walking into an event together, and she's like, you know, you're right. Public works is much more known than operations and maintenance. I'm like, well, of course.

MarkRay: 6:20

Um, things are still relative, though, right? I mean, within the parts, it's all relative. People still don't quite know. And I think that's that's one of the challenges that we all face constantly is to what extent is the branding can be leveraged, good or bad, to help promote the important and essential work that our teams do every single day to make normal happen in their communities. Yeah. So one of the things, in all seriousness, um, you know, as we're as we're kind of joking about being each other's campaign managers, I do in a moment of seriousness want to give credit to APWA, both at the national level, but also the state uh Minnesota level. I know for me personally, um I would not be where I am if not for APWA. I would not have the connections that I do if not for APWA. And so um I'm I'm truly uh humbled uh and being asked to run for this role, uh, but also really that sense of it's just another opportunity to give back to the organization that's given me so much. You know, with over a thousand members here in the state of Minnesota, um, we are one of the strongest chapters uh in the over 30,000 members across the entire country, really around the world for APWA. And so um I think while while our banter back and forth may be fun for some people and annoying for others, I think it's actually a better testament to the to the chapter, to the health of the chapter, to the the hu the humility, but the pride in the important work that we do. And so um that's why I'm I'm thankful if if I'm running against everybody, I'm I'm glad it's you. Um because we don't take ourselves too seriously, but we do take the job fairly seriously.

MarcCulver : 7:54

Yeah, and and when I was uh a little bit recruited for this, um, and you know, I had some interest in running. I I've been much more actively involved in the City Engineers Association of Minnesota here uh right, Mr. President. I think in 2017. But um, but you know, tangent tangentially very involved with uh APWA as well, and and very uh have some really good relationships with with many of the members of of APWA and you know the conferences and such. You are much more ingrained in uh the organization itself than than I have been. But um it's uh it's I'm really when when I found out, sorry, when I found out I was running against you, I was like, well, there's no way I'm winning. There's no way I'm gonna beat Hark Ray.

MarkRay: 8:43

I mean, I had the same feelings when I found out who my competition was, I was like, well, it's been a good run. Best thing I can do is be his campaign manager.

MarcCulver : 8:54

It'll be interesting to see how the vote comes out. Uh, I don't know if we'll get to see the numbers or not, but you know, yeah, and I've thought about that.

MarkRay: 9:02

What I really hope um with our banter and hopefully the attention that it gets is that we just have a higher turnout of votes collectively across because um, you know, in volunteer organizations, people are busy doing their day jobs, they're taking care of their families, they're involved in social activities and and and voting in an election for a volunteer group just may not rise to the to the level of time. Um but but I hope people um do take the time, scan through the bios, they're available online, just check out our links. We've been posting it. Um, but yeah, but take some time and really give back to the organization.

MarcCulver : 9:38

Right. You know, to that point, there are some other candidates uh on this ballot as well. And I I want to give, and I think you've got the ballot up in front of you there so we can walk through that, but I want to give a shout out to uh Mark Ray, who I know is an avid listener to the podcast. Uh not Mark Ray, I'm sorry, Mark Hansen. Too many marks, another mark with a K.

MarkRay: 9:56

Well, yeah, that's exactly it. I think if it's marks with a K, I mean there's there's a capacity for that, if you will, and we might be hitting that. Right, exactly. Exactly. Like, you know, vote for the different one, you know. Right.

MarcCulver : 10:08

Or vote for the mark with the C.

MarkRay: 10:10

Um, yeah, because nobody wants to spell cool with a K. That's just weird.

MarcCulver : 10:14

But anyway, I just want to give a shout out for Mark, who is he running for vice president? Mark Hansen's running for president. Oh, president. Okay. So he's currently vice president running for president. Exactly. And uh he will make an excellent uh president, of course. Um and then who's running for vice president then?

MarkRay: 10:32

Yeah, so vice president, the one and only April Crockett with HDR. Uh former.

MarcCulver : 10:37

And April is a long April was a long-term employee of uh the Minnesota Department of Transportation. So she uh I think within the last 18 months or so moved over to HDR. But uh, you know, good, exciting move for her as she gets to work on some uh process.

MarkRay: 10:52

I mean 15 years at Mindot, and I know kind of living and working in the areas that she served, uh, we are still uh moving, driving through, I think, some of the projects and then kind of experiencing her legacy there. I think also you know, we talk about just just time with the organization. Um, you know, Mark has been with the organization back since the 2000s. April's been a part of APWA for over 20 years, uh, active involvement, going to conferences, volunteer opportunities, and uh, you know, all the stuff that comes along with that. And so I think that's also a testament to the quality of people um that are that are really taking the time and prioritizing uh continuing to keep our chapter strong.

MarcCulver : 11:36

Yeah, yeah. And and and obviously, I mean, and this isn't my term where I'm supposed to uh pump up uh Mark Ray.

MarkRay: 11:44

No, not yet. No, let's just focus on Secretary Treasurer. So the one and only Zach Treasurer.

MarcCulver : 11:51

The president elect, so to speak, Secretary Treasurer. Uh yeah, two down there.

MarkRay: 11:55

We got Zach Johnson out of Lakeville, right? He'd been a member for 18 years. Wow. Um various roles throughout the organization. Uh he was the engineer of the ward, engineer of the year award from SEAM in 2023. Uh obviously very active, both still in SEAM as well as Mendot and state aid uh state aid programs. And then Tim Flash, City Vegan. So let's talk about self metro. We have a solid, solid representation down there. You know, Tim with over 20 years at the City of Egan.

MarcCulver : 12:29

Yeah, that's another, you know. I mean, I know we're supposed to be advocating for each other, but that's another reason to vote uh for Mark with a C is at least get a little bit of North End. Well, Mark Hansen's a north, a north end or two. But in any event, yep, I mean that's fair.

MarkRay: 12:42

However, I'd like to point out Mark was the assistant city engineer for the city of Lakeville for a year. There you go. So, I mean, there's still still ties, so let's let's keep it going. Yeah, and obviously Tim Platt, not only 20 years at Egan, but 20 years with the chapter and being involved. Um and then just again, continue to be actively involved in especially in traffic with the Minnesota Committee on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. He's on the LTEF steering committee, city engineers traffic safety committee. Um, and just he enjoys spending time and helping move people safely and efficiently.

MarcCulver : 13:16

You know, both uh Zach and Tim, if you if you were to look up the uh candidate bios, both wearing uh ties in their uh um pictures there, suit coat, tie I feel his soul associated with that secretary treasurer role, though.

MarkRay: 13:31

Like it is it is the way to be. Mark Hansen's still keeping that going. Um but April, I mean, obviously, April's carry in the day with her calm, cool just power smile she has going on there. Um then obviously for that consultant role again for the director, consultant. I you know, we should actually pause and take a step back, right? So, what is the executive committee for APWA? You know, let's provide some listeners that. So the American Public Works on a whole, um, at the national level, there's over 30,000 members across all 50 states and around the country. Within that national perspective, then there are chapters. Um it depends on where it is and kind of the makeup. Minnesota, we are just one state chapter. Um, in larger communities, Texas, Illinois, they actually will have some kind of smaller chapters because their membership is so big. And so uh, like the Chicago Metro chapter, and then they have different areas there. Um each of those chapters then has an executive board. And so the way the board is made up is you have your president, your vice president, your secretary treasurer. That's kind of the chain. So usually what we see is somebody comes in as secretary treasurer, then they move to vice president, president, and then past president is the normal progression. Outside of that, we have some directors. So you have a director who's a city engineer or director of public works, then you have another director who represents the consultants, and then a director who represents greater Minnesota, and then a director for that state, regional, county kind of um organization, and then obviously a director for young professionals, uh, so you can obviously keep the energy and keep the diversity and uh and um just perspectives uh moving forward. So within the national, you have your chapters, and then your chapters you have board directors, and they're really responsible for the governance and kind of high-level management of that chapter operations. And then each chapter will have a variety of subcommittees talking about a variety of topics. Um yeah.

MarcCulver : 15:32

Yeah, so it's it's actually really a uh a great assembly of some really talented, dedicated professionals. Uh looks like we've got you know the five officers, um, including an APWA delegate, and then uh eight director level uh positions, as uh Mark just laid out. And if you want to hear from uh at least uh one of the previous uh boards, um a couple years ago, so season one, chat uh episode 18, um, the public works nerd here did uh an interview with um the executive board um of the APWA Minnesota uh APWA. Yeah. So um and and and we talked a little, you know, we talked to the president about what do you do? What does the vice president do? What are some of the roles? Uh what does the chapter delegate do? Um, and why is Minnesota such a great chapter? Uh so some some really good conversations there about what makes APWA great here and what Minnesota has done to really um rise above a lot of the other chapters and their involvement um with APWA. So back to the I just I just wanted I wanted to back up a little bit um on the on Zach and uh Tim. You know, just that this is a really hard choice for me, like between Zach and Tim. I I've known both of these guys for a very long time. Tim actually I've known longer, uh, just because we're both uh I don't know if Tim would consider himself a a recovering traffic engineer yet. Um clearly not. Clearly not. Clearly not, right? He he's still he's still in it. Um but uh too Zach uh is actually now the co-chair with me uh on the City Engineers Association legislative committee. Uh him and I have been working very closely on legislative items between APWA and City Engineers Association. Um just a really great guy down at down in Lakeville there. He's been there for a long time. Uh great family guy, too. We we talk uh we talk a lot about baseball. Uh he coaches uh his kids in baseball and uh he's been following uh he asks a lot of questions and follows my son's baseball career. So we have a lot of fun with that. And then uh uh Tim, you know, very much the same, same way. Um little known fact, uh one of Tim's sons actually has a fantasy football podcast. Uh I think it's the the uh it's fantasy football bros or something like that. It's it's a kind of an oddball uh fantasy football uh site, and it's focused primarily a podcast type of thing versus like cheat sheets and all that. But I thought that was kind of cool that he, you know, he's got a son that that's pulling that off. Um but yeah, um both in the South Metro, both working for cities, uh, and two two really two really great guys that are dedicated to their profession.

MarkRay: 18:33

So one of the other kind of representations, right, are the consultants that we work with all the time to help deliver design and deliver projects to the communities that we serve. And so looking kind of represent that is there's a a director role for consultants. Uh we have Eric Fosmo with Kimley Horn and then Justin Messner with WSB. Obviously, these guys have been in in the profession around 20 years plus. Um, and so that that perspective helps kind of round it out. And um one of the major things kind of looking at Eric here. I mean, obviously he's the office practice leader in the St. Paul office, and they led opening the uh Apple Valley office in 2023. So again, that link to the South Metro staying strong, important to see. Um now looking over at what Justin's up to, obviously he's also it's one of his roles working at WSB is he's the city engineer for St. Anthony Village, North Branch, and Sunfish Lake. So he's kind of pulling it more north, obviously. So we're something we will think about. Um obviously, one of my concerns, you know, being a badger myself is anybody who went to the University of Minnesota, is something you have to look at closely. Uh so I'd recommend, you know, check references as you do this. Um it's just wise. Do we have any?

MarcCulver : 19:54

Do we have any badgers that are are running here? Uh I mean, you're kind of a you're you're you're kind of the oddball uh uh i in this environment here.

MarkRay: 20:05

Says the guy who made a podcast called the Public Works Nerds can call anybody else an oddball.

MarcCulver : 20:12

But there are more badgers out there than than uh than I realize or care to admit. Uh because we're a humble, we're a humble crowd. You are you for a reason.

MarkRay: 20:21

Um looking at the uh director for greater, you know, formerly outstate Minnesota, we have Justin Black with SCH and then Matt York with the city of Fairmont. Um again, both now we're at 25 years experience in the profession, um, and just a wide range of experience that they bring to the table, really representing um greater Minnesota and and all that there is to enjoy in those communities. Looking at the director for state, regional county again. So this is kind of moving up in there. We have John Mastello with Ramsey County, Catherine Stanley with uh Minnesota LTAP. Um totally different backgrounds and different perspectives, and that's really fun. Kind of just scan through their background. John, more on the the public sector side of things, then Catherine really doing the research uh and supporting work at the University of Minnesota through the Center for Transportation Studies um at the University of Minnesota, working with the Education and Training Committee and Operation Maintenance Subcommittee. Um, so just a lot of different different connections there.

MarcCulver : 21:32

And then go ahead. Yeah, I was just gonna jump in and and uh I've worked with uh John at Ramsey County in his time there. Um John also a uh um uh former Air Force. I don't think he's active anymore.

MarkRay: 21:49

I know he is active in he retired in yeah, retired in 2014 as lieutenant colonel.

MarcCulver : 21:53

Yeah, yeah, um, but uh a veteran. Um so cool to see that. And uh Catherine, you know, it's really cool to see the uh somebody on the research side jumping into the APWA board here. Great to get uh her perspective on on a lot of things. Uh and LTAP is a really strong uh organization, uh a really strong group here, um, pretty well funded. Um, and and a lot of um the APWA members are active in in uh those technical assistant uh and training um studies and uh reports and training efforts in that. So yes, it'll be good to see her on the as you know, but potentially on the board.

MarkRay: 22:38

Well, and I think one of the other uh things too that the listeners should do if you're just hanging out, go check out the website lrb.org. They're doing a rebrand. So local research boards has just done a rebrand. They are connected with LTAP. Uh check out the great resources that are there for for those in the public works profession. There's a lot of research that's being done that's driven by local governments. You know, what if, how could those questions are leading research that is being done to help us learn more and deliver better services? So, with that, we're focusing on the next generation, the young professional um director position. We have Jason with Bolton and Mink and Laura with AE2S. Um, I think this has been a great addition to the board, kind of having that younger represent representation. Uh, both of them relatively new in their careers, um still innocent and not jaded like some of us. Uh but it's just fun to see them just jumping in and kind of grabbing grabbing the bull by the horns and helping us to continue to be a great chapter for really decades to come.

MarcCulver : 23:45

Yeah, it's really a great opportunity for for both of these uh candidates as well to to really get engaged um at that next level with the organization, um, which which will definitely help their careers going forward, you know, make some they're obviously already making connections with their uh current engagement and involvement in APWA, but this this will help supercharge it. And then also get that younger, uh, as you said, less shaded uh perspective on the on the board as well.

MarkRay: 24:13

So uh yeah. You know, it's it's really funny uh thinking about time, especially reflecting how long you know you and I have been in the profession. And we probably still consider ourselves new or younger in the profession.

MarcCulver : 24:26

And and well, you you are younger than I am, but yeah, yeah.

MarkRay: 24:30

Probably like what, six months or something, but but looking to people that that were in the profession when we got started, and now it's weird, it's not weird, it's um it's responsibility that we have as these young professionals come in to be the role models that we had. Yeah, and that's what keeps the chapter strong. And I think that's something that um we all should never take for granted and also never forget um that that is part of our role, that somebody was there for us and we should be there for somebody else. Um especially just because it's the job is not gonna get easier.

MarcCulver : 25:06

Right, right. You know, I uh over the the past 16 months or so, um I've interviewed for two, you know, leadership level positions uh here at the city of Brooklyn Park. And previous to that I hadn't had a a formal interview since uh 2013. And you know, it I almost it's like I wish we could like just do and we could, but we we should make people or encourage people just to kind of do mock interviews of their own. Like, you know, put yourself through like a mock interview as if you were going after a job, or you were re-interviewing for your own job because it makes you think, you know, you're gonna get answered, you're gonna be asked questions about what you do in this situation, or what are you proud of that you've done, or you know, what's your leadership style, and things like that. And it's a great opportunity for self-reflection. And so I've had two opportunities to do that, like I said, over the past 16 months. And one of the things that really um that it helped me like reinforce in my philosophy and and what I what I want to be is to be remembered as a mentor, to be remembered as uh as a good leader. You know, like that's what I want my legacy to be. You know, I want I want a a group of young engineers who say, hey, you know, uh Mark Culver like really helped me out or, you know, made me think about something in a different way, or something like that. And so um I I really try to be intentional about that with, I have some younger engineers on my staff now. And and even, you know, not even just engineers, but you know, um, some of the like the managers that maybe are working for me or the the maintenance staff. And it really that self-reflection reminded me of what my role needs to be. Um, and as a leader, what I should be charging myself with, um, some of the goals and objectives I have and the responsibility, as you said, I have in um shaping, you know, these younger uh staff members, these people that are coming into the public works industry, um, making sure that they know what opportunities are out there for them, telling them about the importance of getting engaged with a uh professional society, um, to network, to, you know, uh make friends and connections and meet with peers so that you have a network of people you can call up and ask questions of uh things like that. But most importantly, you know, how you know, encouraging people to grow, continue to grow um in this industry. Well, that needs to be intentional, right? You can't just let it happen. Yep. Yeah, I think I don't want to say like I slacked off on that, but it was just really interesting, like that that opportunity for self-reflection. And if we don't put ourselves through some sort of process like that, we may not be doing that. You know, we may not be checking ourselves.

MarkRay: 28:01

Yeah, well, I definitely have you know two thoughts on that. First of all, uh, what I recommend, especially for young professionals, is start to use LinkedIn. I think it's great, is you just put use it as like a real-time tracker for things. So if you work on a cool project, just make that little note under your current job so that when you have a career change opportunity or whatever come up, you can go back and look at those notes and be like, oh yeah, I remember that. I was so proud of that work. And that was that was challenging because, right, to help tell that story. The information is right there as well. So definitely think about that as a tool in real time to capture uh those little nuggets that you want to do. And I think the second thing, um, as leaders, you know, one of the really important things that we need to do, and I am a terrible role model in this, is take care of ourselves so that we can take care of our people. Yep. And so we're being thoughtful, are we being smart about eating healthy, getting enough rest, getting exercise so that when we go to work, we can give our whole self to our people so that we can um set them up for do it, do our due diligence in setting them up for success.

MarcCulver : 29:05

Yeah, that's a really good point. And and it it reminds me, Mark, our you know, the first public works podcast episode was you. And you talked about that. We we talked about, you know, kind of those leadership roles and and uh taking care of yourself. And and again, as a leader and as a mentor, we need to make sure we're training uh and we're instilling that into our staff, uh, you know, those who are working with us or for us, um, to make sure that they're taking care of themselves as well.

MarkRay: 29:32

Um well, it's so tough. I mean the career will hopefully spent span generations, you know, as like we've talked about in the past, the work that we do spans generations. You know, from the infrastructure we build will hopefully outlive us. Um, and and while that's cool and impressive, it's also really hard for people to think on infrastructure timelines that span. It's such a long time frame. You know, it's not a year, it's not a construction season, it's not a year, it's not an election cycle, it's not a term, it's literally generations. And so, how do we communicate the important work we do when we acknowledge it feels like it's never ending because construction happens every year, but yet what we build serves generations to come. Um, and that's that's an impressive thing that we really shouldn't lose perspective about in the day-to-day grind.

MarcCulver : 30:28

Yeah, yeah. That's a really good point. It's a really good point. It's you know, I I doubt it's going to last as long as the uh the Coliseum or or the uh aqueduct in uh uh Provence, France, or or things like that, you know, or Stonehenge, but they are gonna last for a much a lot longer time, at least they should last on this infrastructure that we're building and rebuilding, should last a lot longer than than we do, or at least our careers do. So um, well, good. Well, Mr. uh future uh director of the APWA Minnesota Board.

MarkRay: 31:06

That was a weird way to refer to yourself, but I'm here for you.

MarcCulver : 31:12

Yeah, anything else you want to uh talk about? I th I I think I think this is good. I think this is good for a good uh short back at it episode.

MarkRay: 31:21

You know, I really want to circle back and just say I appreciate the chapter. I appreciate the people that took time that to invest in us earlier in our careers, um, that built a chapter to be the strong chapter that it is today. Um, and and just not let us forget um the people that went before us to set us up for success and that the legacy that we now get to get the opportunity to continue to carry forward for the like for the generations that follow. And so just a shout out to all the members. Um, there are definitely days where you probably feel you know down or whatever, or just struggling to get through. But um the members are what makes APWA great, and so I just uh never forget that. Um hopefully, if nothing else, even though I'm hoping you vote for Mark with a C, um just be involved because it matters.

MarcCulver : 32:13

Yeah, and you know, there is really only one right choice, and that is Mark with a K.

MarkRay: 32:18

Right, and he's running for president, so all is good.

MarcCulver : 32:22

But um uh Mark Ray with a K. Um he puts the Ray in the sunshine. Oh um, carrying on. You know, uh if you're listening to this podcast here, you're not in Minnesota, you're in a different state, uh, you're in a different country, um, you know, really encourage you to find your local APWA chapter, get engaged, get involved, you know, and even just by going to a few meetings and and that. And um, if you have that opportunity or ability to um enhance that chapter or um increase the exposure or what have you to it, do it. You know, make it better, make it better for everybody else in your state or your your district, um, your chapter, um, and and make it better for those that will be following in in years to come. This this this is a really great. I mean, APW Minnesota is like the best chapter in the world. Like we all know. Not their bias, not their bias, not our bias. I mean, there's there's proof. We have banners uh to prove it. Um, but uh, you know, APWA in general is just such a great organization. It's gonna be we talk about stuff that's gonna be around for a long time. APWA is gonna be around for a very, very long time. And uh so you know, do your best to make your local chapter as good as it can be for uh you know those that are in college today or in elementary school even um that will be future APWA members.

MarkRay: 33:53

And the best way to do that is go to the website apwa.org. Um just check it out, start there. Well, there's a lot of information, ways to get connected, and and go forth.

MarcCulver : 34:04

Yeah, awesome. And hey, if you you know, I I say this every time I do an episode leading up to the PWX conference. Uh it's my goal now, as long as I'm an active professional, uh, to go to the national conference every year. Um so I I encourage you to uh look me up, you know, uh shoot me a message on LinkedIn or something, be happy to connect and and maybe even get you on uh on a future podcast to talk about a topic that you're you're passionate about as a public works professional. And I know Mark Mark has been Mark's been recognized at uh PW P PWX conferences as a public works nerd.

MarkRay: 34:42

So uh that is that is fair. That was a very surreal moment to have somebody come up to me uh with that. Yeah, so next year, APW PWX conference in Houston, and then in a couple of years down the line, it's actually coming back here to Minneapolis. And so uh whether you're here near or far, uh public works will never be that far away from you. And and you know, if you can take the opportunity to go to a conference, do it.

MarcCulver : 35:07

Yeah, and then and in a couple of years, you find yourself at the PWX conference in Minneapolis. Uh Mark and Mark, Mark and I, Mark with a K, Mark with a C, Mark Hansen, uh, we're all going to be active in this. Um, we'll we'll most likely be on the host committee, and we'll probably be running a tour somewhere to some way uh during that conference.

MarkRay: 35:26

Definitely won't be running, but we will be putting on a great show and we look forward to welcoming everybody here. Yeah.

MarcCulver : 35:33

Well, hey, uh thanks everybody for well, thanks for listening. Uh it's good to uh see you again, so to speak. Good to be back out here recording an episode again. Uh, and I promise I'll I'll be dropping more episodes more regularly again uh going forward. So and just as a reminder, as always, uh vote for Mark. Vote for Mark. Uh either way, you're gonna, it's it's a good vote. Um but as always, you know, help us spread the word on the podcast. Uh drop us a comment on on LinkedIn, like our posts, what have you. It really helps us spread the word. So so thank you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for being out there. Thank you, Mark, for another great episode.

MarkRay: 36:14

Pleasure as always. We'll see you guys around.

MarcCulver : 36:16

Nerds out.